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Dr. Ian Robertson began his professional career as a veterinarian. He has over 10 years of media experience presenting 'all things animal' via radio, public speaking, 3 published books and television, which included being a presenter of endangered species from around the world for Fox Television. Ian's experience with Fox prompted him to add a law degree to his roster and he is now a barrister and Solicitor of the High Court of New Zealand, specializing in the area of animal law.
As a university law lecturer he teaches the subject of animals and the law at law schools and veterinary schools in both New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Ian is co-authoring an academic text and developing global education systems on animal law; he also runs an international animal law consultancy, and is the founder of the www.animal-law.biz website.
Our Interview with Ian Robertson
1. Given your background as a veterinarian, how did you become involved in the field of animal protection law?
While practising as a veterinarian and running my own veterinary hospitals, I concurrently developed an intensive media career which had me advising on all-things-animal on television programs, radio talkbacks, magazine columns and so on. The highlight of this was working as the television presenter of endangered species from around the world to camera for Fox Television USA. The program required us to get up close and hands-on with the animals (no zoom lenses!) , ranging from the Green Turtle in the South China Sea to Australia’s Death Adders and the Orangutans in Bornea – and many, many more. I was directly educated and exposed to such issues, the challenges of competing motivations, the hurdle of communicating science into law, and seeing the affects of laws that sometimes worked - and sometimes didn’t. So many times during the period of working for Fox, I saw individuals working against sometimes enormous odds to save or assist a particular species – I went on to describe them as a silent army of people doing good things every day. I already had a veterinary and business background, and I decided to add a law degree with the view to being a communicator in respect of both “languages” (medicine and law) and thereby contribute to what we all so often quote as “making a difference”.
I was 7 years old when I decided to be a veterinarian (and I’m still a registered veterinarian and make the time each year to enjoy clinical practice). My media career dealt with the world of animals and extended my hands-on experience from domestic animals to wild and endangered ones. So it was a natural transition to continue my passion to the field of animals and the law after becoming a barrister. Looking after the animals, and helping the people who look after them, has been a continual theme throughout my professional career.
After I’d completed my law degree, I spent a period of time solidifying that degree with general law and particularly Resource Management law (since that’s where “the rubber meets the road” in respect of many environmental issues) and concurrently designed and developed the Animal Law course which was taught at Canterbury University Law School in 2005 and became New Zealand’s first law course on animals and the law. To avoid various prejudices, particularly attitudes that saw animal law being categorised as simply “dog bites and animal rights” I intentionally designed, and present the course so that it is objective, and addresses the issues in respect of animals and the law both domestically and internationally.
The aim of the course is to facilitate students understanding as well as education in this field, thereby enabling them to fully consider the relevant “why” questions in respect of animal protection and animal law, and authoritatively participate in discussions and/or decision making.
2. You have taught animal law in both New Zealand and the United Kingdom.
a. Can you comment on your respective teaching experiences in these countries?
b. What are the major themes of your course?
c. What do you hope your students will take away from your course?
The classes have been extremely well attended and beyond law school enrolment expectations. Canterbury (NZ) Law school attracted 35 students in its first year, and the same number in the second year. I have spoken as a guest lecturer in UK, and am lecturing the Leeds Animal Law course in February 2007, which is scheduled to be taught again in 2008.
Because it’s a multidisciplinary topic students get to apply concepts from every other canon of law. There’s a lot of comparative law which makes it even more interesting, and the essays deal with “live” issues which invite a broad consideration beyond just law to wider economic, political, cultural considerations.
While the black letter law may (and does) differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, it appears to me that the key issues remain very similar and the course does not simply regurgitate black letter law, but focuses on the issues, underpinned by black letter law which the students consequently research and apply in their essays. While motivations for change may differ, there is obviously an increased awareness globally in respect of what is broadly termed animal protection. It appears that there are certain common principles which are developing (e.g. the five freedoms) and, as has been the experience of developing law historically, there is the opportunity for one jurisdiction to learn and build on the experiences of other jurisdictions.
The classes are not only informative, they’re also highly interactive and thought provoking. Feedback from students to the law school administration has included comments from “wish it was a full year course” to shorter superlatives stating simply “awesome”.
Presently the course is predominantly taught to law students. However, I have also had a number of non-law students in the classes including veterinarians and representatives from animal related NGO’s. The current course is already being expanded so that it can also be offered to postgraduate lawyers and other professionals directly and/or indirectly involved with animals.
In respect of the course itself, it begins by considering where animals feature in our society which includes, for example, agriculture, industry, research, sports, and entertainment, in addition to being pets. The course illustrates how significantly animals, and our use of them, impacts on the economy, culture, environment and life-style, and that, for this reason, issues of animal law involve all major areas of law including tort law, contract law, public law and criminal law with both national and international considerations.
The course continues by introducing participants to the history and philosophy of law as it pertains to animals, thereby providing a sound understanding on which to discuss how current laws are framed.
Focusing on the practical application of legal principles, the course then deals directly with the key, and controversial, issues relating to animals including, for example, their status as property, the use of animals in experimentation and agribusiness, legal issues under each major canon of law, and consideration of domestic legislation in light of key international treaties and trends in context of wider social, political and economic influences.
The course ensures that class members are conversant with the “language” of Animal Law – including, for example, its definitions, concepts, and key figures. Additionally, it is designed to provide students with an understanding, and ability to critically discuss underlying laws and values in respect of the controversial legal issues regarding the use of animals across a range of different contexts. As altruistic as it may sound, the desired outcome reflects a theme that has been repeated by many of my learned colleagues across the world – in short, achieving tomorrows desired outcomes hinges on the availability and quality of education today.
3. You are currently co-authoring an academic text on developing global education systems on animal law. What prompted you to embark upon this book?
In short, like many of my colleagues, it is also my belief that providing objective and balanced education to the future decision makers about the issues in respect of animals and the law today, is a vital part of implementing change that will affect both animals and humans tomorrow.
4. Can you tell us about the work that you do as an international animal law consultant?
Congruent with 1) my original reason for adding a law degree, 2) designing the animal law course, and 3) my belief as stated above in respect of the importance of education today for tomorrows change, my consultancy combines my skills in medicine, business and law and provides specialist information/education, facilitates communication, and provides objective legal opinions in respect of legal issues regarding animals and the law. Most of my time is spent with government bodies, NGO’s and selected tertiary education providers, in addition to other colleagues involved in this field. At present my work involves activities in New Zealand, Australia, the UK and USA.
5. Why did you found the www.animal-law.biz website? What is the site about?
The site was formed as a source of information in respect of animal law, and my related professional activities.
The site has a number of functions. It advises about the availability of courses on animal law (Courses and Seminars), my availability as a speaker at conferences and other events (Public Speaking), provides assistance in respect of animal law issues (How Can We Help You?), and provides a newsletter type “what’s happening” in respect of animals and the law from a casual discussion point perspective (ChinWag) and more formal academic sense (Animal Law Talk). It also provides helpful links to those wanting web reference to related sites (Links). The best way to see what it’s about is of course to take a moment and have a look.
6. What do you think are some of the big issues for animal lawyers in:
a. New Zealand; and
b. The United Kingdom?
Oh there are so many, so the answer to this question is going to be more of a “thoughts in the immediate moment” response to avoid writing another book!
The issues in respect of animals and the law appear to share, as mentioned previously, common themes no matter what the legal jurisdiction. Broadly speaking it appears to me that the “five freedoms” are arguably a central theme for much of the established (e.g. New Zealand Animal Welfare Act 1999), and relatively recently established (e.g. England and Scotland 2006) legislation; and continue to be a central theme for developing initiatives in respect of animal welfare/protection. Educating, applying and enforcing the laws and standards appear to be likely hurdles in each jurisdiction as stakeholders seek clarity and consistency in respect of their duties under the (new) laws and standards.
Among the big issues, and consequently big opportunity, for animal lawyers is the ability to participate in this process, and assist in overcoming certain social, scientific, cultural and economic obstacles which potentially hinder the effective practice of animal protection. These are practical considerations which accompany the concurrent legal and ethical debates that surround the place of non-humans in our human based society. As per one of the 3 elements that are part of the definition of animal law that I use, these developments will affect the not only the animals (whether they be domesticated, wild, endangered or otherwise), but also the relationship between the animals and humans themselves.
Overall, this is a difficult question to answer because the answer itself is potentially so vast – but it does highlight that animal law is a relatively new but burgeoning field with the potential for an enormous amount of legal involvement.
7. Do you have any words of wisdom to share with Australia's budding animal lawyers?
For the budding animal lawyers, I would suggest that the indicators are that animal law is a seriously important, emerging and evolving legal discipline. Consequently it’s a field that lends itself to those who want to be involved in a multidisciplinary cutting-edge area that truly has global impact legally, economically, and many other “lee’s”!
For those who have already got involved I would see the 3 primary considerations as:
- Recognition of Animal Law as a distinct legal discipline: Many people, including fellow lawyers, still seem to equate animal law lawyers with “tree huggers” and think it’s a time-filler that deals with what I have termed “animal rights and dog bites”. 10 minutes with fellow professionals often results in them exclaiming something like “oh my goodness, animal law is huge”! Educating fellow lawyers/barristers in addition to other animal professionals and the public is part of the process of getting animal law recognised as a separate legal discipline. On an encouraging note, there are those who “get it”. One of my fellow legal academics who has a career background as an Environmental lawyer, has said that in his opinion “animal law is where environmental law was 20 years ago” – he can remember colleagues being somewhat vague as to what environmental law was … that has changed of course! As has been commented on in many areas, some things just take time.
- Money: At first glance most people would sigh, shake their heads and think/say something along the lines of “what’s new”? On further reflection though, this issue impacts beyond what may be many peoples first assumptions that this applies just to the animal lawyers remuneration and the depth of animal carer pockets. The reality is that this is a key criteria, challenge and motivator to many different stakeholders who may recognise the potential of animal law and alternatives, but who must by necessity consider financial realities as part of their decision making process. I have seen this on a number of occasions when approaching law schools in respect of a course on animals and the law. Decision makers often initially wonder what’s included in a course on animal law for example, and then they have to consider “the numbers”. Just as we seek to provide “judge proof arguments” as lawyers in the court room, so too it appears to me that we need to continue to look for new and innovative ways to effectively and lawfully facilitate advances. The global education program I referred to earlier is one such example. This leads to my 3rd issue.
- Law – one step at a time: It appears to me that certain animal lawyers get frustrated with a perceived lack/slowness of progress. I was taught by a headmaster of a boarding school that I attended that sometimes it pays to take a moment and instead of looking at how far there is yet to go, look back and see how far you’ve already come – then you can turn around and deal with the next to-do task with renewed vigour.
I’ve heard it said “nothing can stop an idea whose time has come”. The number of universities now teaching animal law, the fact that the EU Framework 7 Initiatives include issues of animal welfare, the increasing number of animal lawyers and increasing legislation in respect of animal welfare (just recently for example, there has been new legislation introduced in Scotland and England) are all evidence of increasing global attention to the field of animal law.
Finally on this point, it appears to me that the reason some principles have graduated to becoming clichés is because they are indeed consistent and timeless. “Keep your eye on the target”, “rest if you must but don’t quit” and “one step at a time” are 3 such clichés that seem appropriate in the present moment.
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